In this episode of the Crossroads Psychology Podcast I discuss with Shira Aliza Silton different topics related to the application of positive psychology in alleviating stress and increasing the quality of life in these uncertain times.
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Shira Aliza Silton is a therapist and clinical social worker from New York with over 13 years’ experience helping patients cope with a large variety of issues, from grief to self-esteem.
0:29 Who is Shira Aliza Silton?
0:58 What is Positive Psychology?
3:08 The importance of focusing on one’s strengths.
5:14 How can you improve your well-being?
6:36 How can a growth mindset help you?
8:36 What are the benefits of journaling?
12:01 How can dance, music, and art therapy help?
14:40 How do you approach grief and emotional suffering?
17:36 How to instill self-esteem in teenagers young adults?
20:33 How to deal with stress in times of quarantine?
23:20 The importance of staying informed but not overwhelming yourself with toxic news.
24:12 The importance of being able to reach to clients in their own language.
27:07 What is the importance of mindfulness and spirituality in daily life?
30:20 How do you promote wellness though physical exercise and Zumba?
31:35 What advice do you have for young people thinking of studying psychology?
34:01 What positive psychology book do you recommend?
Connect with Shira Aliza Silton: Psychology Today Profile
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Transcript of interview with Shira Aliza Silton
Thank you for accepting the invitation to this very new positive psychology podcast.
It’s my pleasure. It’s really a pleasure to be able to speak with you. It’s so exciting to be able to speak internationally here.
To begin with, I want to ask you, what is your understanding of positive psychology and how do you “translate” that to your clients?
So I would say that I use positive psychology all the time with my patients. I think that, the themes of resilience and grit and even in the most dire of circumstances, and I have patients who’ve experienced very severe trauma, abuse, the loss of a parent at a very young age, a loss of siblings, within every person, there is strength and they have the ability, if they can recognize those strengths and build upon them, then they can really shift their mindset and the way that they interact in the world with others.
I have many examples of this with my patients and, something I would say also I do this, Martin Seligman, as you know is a wonderful, there’s an exercise that’s been tried and true and proven, I’ve used it very frequently with my patients and that’s to either in the morning or at night whenever they can have a few minutes to think of at least three things that they recognize as positives in their lives or three strengths they have or things that they are grateful for. And it’s amazing, the power of this and recircuiting their brain to really look at things in a more positive light.
And I always just, we always discuss how in so many realms, if we can start begin to see the glass half full, then we really do attract positive energy to us as well. And so I think patients, it’s easy enough for any patient to either jot down three things or three things in morning and night. And it actually can really begin their day in a very, with a very different mood.
It is a very powerful exercise. So, in your practice, I think you focus a lot on building strengths. Why do you think people focus so much on their weaknesses as opposed to their strengths?
Well, you know, there’s that, I don’t know many people have seen this movie Pretty Woman, right? And there’s a line in that movie where the female protagonist says “The bad stuff is easier to believe”. I think that we, that this is something, a principle we use with others where, you know, unfortunately there’s a lot of gossip and rumors always being spread, and we are fast to believe the worst in others.
It’s harder to take time to see the best and to give people the benefit of the doubt. I think the same works for ourselves, you know, from very young, a very young age, possibly almost in utero, I think we’re given messages, which we internalize. It might be from our parents. You know, a lot of my patients struggle with body image issues. It was really the seeds of which were planted from a very young age. Either by their parents, by friends who bullied them, they were too small or too big or too freckly or too, you know, and they’ve taken these in and it’s been very much, I know we’ll speak about perhaps some more self-esteem later on in the discussion, but it’s something that they’ve internalized and certainly with social media also, I think there are incessant comparisons that people make between, one another and they might take a glimpse of something they see on social media and think, “Oh, this person has this fabulous life. And I have, I’m just, I’m just a nobody,” when really that snapshot of that person and that person might’ve been having quite a difficult day in reality. So I think there are so many, it’s so easy to be critical of ourselves. And it takes a discerning eye to really look at, analyze it and unwrap all those layers.
So apart from [avoiding] social comparison, how can one build upon his or her strengths to improve their well-being?
I think one of the main things we could do is really instill confidence in our already from a young age as children. You know, I think there was this really a wonderful article called “The Anxious Child” in the Atlantic Journal, have them work to problem solve. Explore with them, how they might solve a certain problem. Don’t try to solve it for them because really that’s not going to help them in the future. They’re going to be reliant. They’re going to not; they lack the confidence to think they can handle struggles on their own later in life.
So I think the best thing we can do for our children and adults is to really have conversations with them about what they’re passionate about and what they feel that, you know, what their superhero powers are and really build on them, build on, what they love doing, even if it’s, it might be helping others that might be, it might not be an athletic skill or a musical talent, but it might be their ability to relate to other people and to empathize with other people.
So whatever that is, I think that that’s a really good way of building strength and resilience.
I also think mindset is very important. So what do you think, how can a growth mindset help people who find themselves in a rut, you know, lift themselves up? Of course it’s very important in children to learn new things and to take in new thing, but how about older people who are struggling, how can a growth mindset help them?
You know, I’m thinking about patients who I’ve had at every age and people really that succeed the most in therapy are the people that really have that instinct and motivation, that intrinsic motivation to want to change and to want to grow. And so I often with my patients, I will differentiate between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation.
There are things that we do because we’re told we should be doing them, that we were told by parents, or we’re told by our teachers, but what about, you know, and that’s fine. And we certainly, sometimes we need to have that outside motivation, but, take away the grades, take away the social pressures and the expectations for living a certain trajectory and try to really think about what, how could working on these various goals, personal goals.
That’s why I think it’s very important to set personal goals with your patients, personal goals that are catered to them, cater to what they want in their own lives. And then that’s how we build on intrinsic motivation. Okay. So, and also motivational interviewing, okay, you want this in your life, what would it take to get there? What are the steps that we would have to take, and you make it concrete so that they can really visualize it? We don’t want to set them up for failure. We want to really, set up measurable steps that they imagine that are achievable. And so we don’t want to overwhelm them with, someone else’s goals or lofty goals that they’ll never be able to reach. Those who go about it in a gradual manner, ends up sustaining that those improve.
So, since you mention goals, you are also a believer, you also recommend journaling to your patients. I also believe that journaling is such a powerful tool. So, I’m wondering, what are some of the benefits of journaling that you have seen in your practice?
My patients sometimes joke with me. I say, “Oh, you know what I’m going to tell you to do” because it’s something, I mean, I personally use it. And I’m such a firm believer. Journaling, I use it in a few different ways. I think that in terms of, I always tell patients to date their entries. Because that measure progress as well. We sort of can see where our mindset was. Let’s say even a year before or even a month before and how they’re growing and how they’re evolving in their various ways of thinking about things and the way they’re connecting things.
But I think the use of journals themselves, it’s very cathartic. Just that the actual process of doing it, the outlet is cathartic. But in addition, I mean, I use journaling in very significant ways with patients who experienced loss, writing a letter to their departed loved one, or I have a patient who unfortunately she lost her friend to suicide and she is, I’m having her compile. She loves to write poetry. And she’s actually going to write a book in memory of this friend. And that’s really helping her connect to the friend and also work through the grief.
But in addition, after a breakup, what would you have wanted to say that you didn’t say? It often can prevent people from lashing out at someone they might be angry at because they’re writing it down, they’re getting it out, but they’re not going to say something, they later regret or that later reflects badly on them and they won’t feel good about it in the end. So it can be in the form of writing a letter. It can be in the form of writing your thoughts, but once that flow, you can get that flow activated. I think it can really work magic.
And I also think that journaling is visual, and it’s a record, and you can go back to it, and you see your own handwriting, then you say, “Wow, that was my writing that, but look, maybe a few months down the line I changed.”
Yes. Yes. And that’s why I always say dating is so important. Because, you might have a sense from yourself when you may have written it, you can, if there’s certain context to that journal entry. But if you really think, even if it’s, people who are struggling so much with relationships and trying to understand what it is that’s not working here. And then they sort of go back into their own patterns. I think journaling helps you really analyze patterns. And through doing that, we really gain a much deeper insight into ourselves and into other people as well. We can journal about other people’s patterns as well. And additionally many people repeat cycles that they have in their families, let’s say cycles of addiction, cycles of negative behaviors, positive ones as well, but negative behaviors. And if they can track that from the time, they a child to the time they are adult and see how those cycles are continuing, or they’re able to break those cycles.
They can spot the triggers.
Yes. In the journals absolutely.
So journaling is like a very cognitive activity, but tell me more about your dance, music and art therapy?
Absolutely. So I personally have a deep passion for dancing. I always have, since I was little…
And I see you’re in the park right now.
Yes, it’s about to rain. So I said, in the next hour, it’s not going to, I’m going to, I have to be in nature for today, at least for a little, a little quiet. And actually it’s very quiet right now, so that’s good, but I’m a deep believer in using creative therapies in one’s work.
I taught dancing from a pretty young age to children, but I worked in a day treatment program for adults with schizophrenia, everyone in the program had schizophrenia and it was a group program. And I ran, there were a number of treatment groups. And I ran, symptom management, anger management, but we also have the ability to incorporate creative therapies.
And so I ran a newsletter group so that people could publish their work, their writing, their pictures, things that felt compelling for them. I ran an arts and crafts group and a dance group. And what I found was that these otherwise very vulnerable individuals were able to connect with others. And also, they felt a real sense of pride in their work. And some of them were really very accomplished artists and they wrote some very profound poetry and just sort of and some had religious, there’s some religious underpinnings to their work, but it was really so amazing to watch them in action and, just see them come out of this shell through these methods.
But then I also did, I taught Zumba later on, at a clinic for many years. I ran an HIV support group and I taught it’s very important to stay active, that’s something I’m very strong on not be really get up. And especially when you’re struggling with a chronic condition, medical condition, it’s very important to make sure that you’re living an active lifestyle.
And these methods were both with children and adults, right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think what it does is it takes people out of their heads to an extent and allows them to really engage with others and themselves in a different way. But when it comes to a creative art, you see a whole different person come out and they feel good about it.
You’ve worked with so much, with people who went through so much suffering, you mentioned schizophrenia, AIDS… In your practice you also deal with grief and emotional suffering. How do you approach such heavy issues?
Grief is something that I actually have been dealing with since I was very young. My father was a rabbi and I used to go to the hospital with him from a really, a very young age to visit patients. And then I was so attracted to this idea because I felt like to sit with someone in this very, very emotionally laden and heavy time. It was a very powerful thing, very difficult, but very powerful.
And so I, throughout high school and college, and until about 20 years living in New York, I run hospital programs where I visit patients because I think there is so much, while we think of it, there’s something known as a doula for the dying, someone who just takes someone through these stages and it’s very heavy indeed. But it’s also, there are some really powerful, there’s very powerful imagery you can use. I’ve used, there’s this song in my culture where you sort of, you sing about angels surrounding you from every side and protecting you and just people knowing that you have others praying for them. And that sort of speaks to spirituality as well.
I have a master’s in religious studies and so I fuse certainly and incorporate spirituality into my practice. But in terms of helping someone cope with grief, I think that, for all ages, there are different methods. Journaling certainly is one of them, but, making a memory box, putting all the memories you have, it could be a scrapbook or even a locket of hair, or, just, it’s a very powerful tool. Having, so I had a patient who traveled all the way to Austria because that was a dream her mom had, the beloved mother had passed. This was a way she felt she could kind of live this dream with her, take her with her on this journey.
So there are just so many different examples of things that, and certainly just going through the stages of grief, the DABDA right, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s, “On death and dying.” We have that also with respect to break ups. I don’t mean to say that the same thing, but very often the stages of grief that someone goes through after a very significant breakup is also incredibly painful. And people have a hard time feeling that their lives will go on. And so I think that just knowing what those stages are and helping them work through them and having some measure of hope that I will feel better one day, it will feel better.
Hope and also, I think self-esteem, right? It’s such an important concept to grasp especially for teenagers and young adults.
Absolutely. Self-esteem, I think I could probably speak for hours about self-esteem. I think self-esteem is very much tied, I alluded to it a bit before, but very much tied to, the messages we receive when we are younger and the coping mechanisms we have or have not been given to help combat the negative ones and replace them with a different, more, positive and growth-oriented notion.
I mean, it’s very interesting, I deal a lot with body image and as it relates to self-esteem, even those individuals who have lost a tremendous amount of weight and they feel, and they objectively look different, they still feel like that chubby kid, they still feel even after the gastric bypass surgeries, many of them still struggle. And they always will feel like that person that was bullied and made fun of.
So it really is, as much as we can do external things to try to make people feel better about themselves, there’s really so much of the work does have to be done internally and, social media, I just want to mention again, I’m just seeing with my patients, it just adds another fuel to the fire. It fuels the fire.
So I think what’s very important in terms of self-esteem. Actually I was watching the other day the Mr. Rogers film, I don’t know if you’ve seen it with Tom Hanks. So something that he mentioned that I just, I’m thinking to bring it up is that it’s so important for kids to really feel like there’s only one of them they’re unique in their own right. And I keep mentioning kids, I work with mostly adults actually, but I think it starts when you’re younger and you can also tell an adult this and it actually in the movie, it isn’t adults who tries to, well, I’ll explain what I do with adults, but I think for people to know that they’re valuable just as they are, not if they change, not if they do this and not if they do that, certainly they can have their own personal goals for themselves. But already just as they are, they are a valuable person.
They were created uniquely, and there’s a reason they’re in this world. And we have to work towards recognizing what special gifts they have to contribute. I think for an adult, really struggling with self-esteem. Sometimes I have them speak to that inner child and have them speak to, what would they have needed to hear when they were younger. I’m working with someone now who lost his father from a very young age and had a very tough mother who needed to be tough. And, he never got that nurturing and love. What would he needed to have heard in those moments to be a less angry person today?
True, true. A to that we add these uncertain times we live in right now, and I think being able to deal with everyday stress is so crucial. Can you tell us some methods you use to help clients deal with stress and stress management?
Absolutely. And do you mean particularly in the quarantine period or in the…
I think the quarantine period would be very, very relevant today.
I personally believe that creating a structure to your day, even if it’s, even if it involves, I wake up at this time, I eat breakfast, I pray or I do a mindfulness activity or I call this particular friend, that’s uplifting, an uplifting friend at this time, I have a snack at this time. It could be things that seem silly, but you need to have set a certain structure to every day because I think people get really down and depressed when first of all, they stay inside too much. I say, also, if you can venture out cautiously, obviously wearing a mask, social distancing, whatever you need to do. I have my mask right here, then, but just get out, breathe new air. And even if it’s a walk around the block, if it’s not a nice day, stay under buildings, but just get, breathe in some new air, get out of bed, get dressed. Don’t stay in that bed.
Yes. Have a routine.
Absolutely. The worst enemy, I always say, even with personal friends, when they’re feeling very down, I say, okay, let’s do this together. You’re going to get up out of bed, get dressed, take a shower. Let’s just walk together. Even if we’re not walking together, I’ll be on the phone with them and we’ll just get them up and out. And once you start your body moving and you set, as we said, a routine to the day, you feel more fulfilled and you feel that it was a more productive day. You’re a little bit more tired when it comes to sleeping. People are really struggling with sleep right now.
Sleep patterns have just gone all over the place these days.
People are sleeping way too late, and then they’re overthinking and they’re ruminating and they’re not able to sleep. So anything you can do to make your day feel fulfilling and productive for you, that’s what I would say. I think also, what I say is don’t watch too much news. I think some people are, that’s what they’re doing all day long and it’s very negative. It’s not, what’s happening in the world right now, it’s very stressful and they don’t even realize how it’s impacting them, how toxic that can be. So of course they can be informed, but limit it, you don’t need to do it all day long.
Correct. So when I was in quarantine, when I came back to China in February, from my home country, I had a very, very like strict routine wake up in the morning, air the house, look at the mountains. We live in the North of Beijing and we can see the mountains on a clear day. And since everything was stopped, the mountains were clear. And I told myself, once a day, I read on the news and that’s it.
You need to be informed, but do you need to be informed about every single minute of what’s going on? And they don’t even realize consciously how it’s affecting them, but then it comes out. I actually I’ll just share that my four-and-a-half-year-old son, he’s been having nightmares about ambulances and about, I mean, he’s so little and you don’t really note it. You don’t know exactly what they’re absorbing, but they’re absorbing a lot more than we think.
You mentioned that your father is a rabbi; so basically, you’re trilingual, you speak English obviously, Spanish, Hebrew, which I think gives you an advantage in understating your patients from a cultural point of view. So, what role has this played in your career as a therapist and clinical social worker; because you’ve done so much work outside your clinical practice?
So yes. I mean, I would say that the number one thing I would advise is for you to learn anotherr foreign language. Particularly in New York, Spanish really comes in handy. I use Hebrew a bit less here, although I’ve certainly had several patients who speak Hebrew. I think there’s nothing like speaking, literally speaking someone else’s language, truly connect deeply and profoundly with them. And that is why, of course, I mean, I had a little, I had some background in schooling in Spanish, not much, but some, and I also spent a month on a social service mission in Argentina many years ago, that helped a bit. But it was really me forcing myself to communicate because I really wanted to connect with these patients. And I just, a lot of people are so afraid of making mistakes and, “Oh, I’m going to sound so stupid.” And they’re going to think that, they’re not going to even want to hear what I have to say. And I said, no, I had a very different way of looking at it. I said, I really want to know what they’re saying. I really want to understand them. I don’t want to have to use a translation service because sometimes they miss the nuances or idioms or expressions, I really want to connect. So I said, even if I make a lot of mistakes and certainly, I can tell you very funny stories about mistakes I’ve made. I just, I want to get there. And they were my best teachers, my patients. And then it just really, it flowed and they got it, it’s much more second nature. Sometimes I even think in another language, but you can do that. It’s not so easy as an adult to learn a new language, but if you force yourself to just try to lose the sense of embarrassment or shame, it’s possible.
And I also think it’s important for your clients to be able to express themselves in maybe what they call a mother tongue, or the tongue they speak at home. It’s very, very, very powerful.
If you think about the extra energy it takes to try to speak in another language, especially when you’re using emotional language and emotional words and you’re crying and you’re crying out. And if you have to add that extra each time, if you have to try to think of how to say that in another language, it can’t flow as easily and it’s not as, it’s certainly not as natural. And I want them to be as natural of a, be able to express themselves as naturally as possible. I think it’s hard enough to express oneself.
You also mentioned spirituality. It seems that people are becoming more and more aware of the benefits of mindfulness and spirituality. In your opinion, what is the importance of mindfulness and spirituality?
I really think, particularly in this very fast paced frenetic world that we’re in, where we’re getting images, we’re being bombarded with images every two minutes. There’s much less delayed gratification. We’re just used to instant gratification, instant pleasure. It’s really important to take some time and pause and really get back to ourselves and ground ourselves and connect in a more profound way with nature with what our needs are, with what other’s needs are. And I think it’s really hard to do this unless we do take a break, yoga studios, I think are probably being a, I know they’re offering, a lot of my patients are doing yoga zooms right now because they just need to, especially amidst this unpredictable time. People need to ground themselves and to connect in a very meaningful way with their bodies, with their minds.
I totally agree that it has to be intentional.
Absolutely mindful eating…
I also believe that it doesn’t have to take like half a day of meditation. It can also be a 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 2 minutes… looking inwards.
I personally think it’s more effective if it’s not for too long. I think it’s not practical to sustain that every day. We know that the most beneficial changes are made gradually. And I think if we force ourselves into a mindfulness, I mean, of course their mindfulness retreats and their meditation retreats. But I think that the goal is to practice it enough so that you can implement it at least a little bit every day, or even just, let’s just say, I mentioned mindful eating, you know, people really enjoying the texture of their food, not just scarfing it down, but really taking time to think about not how many calories does this have, but actually the joy of eating and the joy of every aspect of it and the gratitude that we have for what we were, what we’re given.
So that’s just one aspect of mindfulness, but certainly spirituality in general is a very important component in my life. I’ve prayed with patients. I’ve prayed for patients. I think, it might be selfish on my part in a way, because I want to feel like I have inactive tool that I can help them. I think sometimes we can certainly support them emotionally, but, we can only do so much and there is this higher power out there that, I’d like to elicit also. Regardless, irrespective of religion, I don’t, religion less, but just the idea that I think it gives people some solace to think that there’s a higher order to things sometimes.
True. And as a Zumba instructor, how to promote wellness through physical exercise?
Well, I absolutely believe in endorphins that absolutely can elevate your mood when you, they say after like 20 minutes of a really rigorous let’s say run or a dance class, people can really lose themselves in, if you can lose yourself in an activity, you can really boost your mood and your level of happiness. So Zumba is something that is, what I love about it is that, the music is so uplifting. You become one with the music, it’s a group activity. So it offers a potential for socialization. It offers the potential for networking for people. But it also, you know, when you’re in, you’re doing this in a group, you feel like you’re part of something as well.
Like a boost, like there is an energy from the group.
Absolutely. There’s this energy that you just, you just can feel vibrate through your body when you’re going it.
As you know, I’m a psychology teacher at an international school here in Beijing. What advice do you have for young people who think of going into psychology? How can psychology help them in their future careers, not necessarily becoming a psychology teacher or a psychologist?
Absolutely. So it happens to be, I’ve spoken at many colleges and universities. I work at one now, but my identical twin sister is a psychology professor. So I have had the opportunity to speak to her students and in other schools and something that I’ll say whether or not you go into psychology, the opportunity, our patients give us a golden key into their minds. You know, their souls, their hearts. They allow us to really delve deeply into the really the inner most recesses of their hearts.
I think when you study psychology, you can gain a lot of insight into yourself, but also just relating to other people. Let’s say, even whether you go into business, whether you go into marketing, I know a lawyer who he’s exceptionally brilliant, but he had difficulty relate, with his real interrelationships. So, he was given some coaching in that way. So really it pervades every single field, if we can understand people. And even if you’re in a back office somewhere and you don’t interact that much with people, we know that you need to have, some kind of outlet in order to live a more full life.
So I think that really, it can only help to learn the way the human mind feels thinks operates. And I would say that, as heavy as it can be hearing emotional cases. There are many moments where I will say, I say, “Wow, this was a heavy day”, but I feel like I was at the right place at the right time. And I feel like I I’m glad I’m doing what I’m doing, you know, so, does it pay the most? No, does it, but there the sense of fulfillment and gratification, if you can reach somebody and they teach us as well, the patients teach us as well, it’s a really reciprocal process. So that’s what I would sit.
Lastly, before we end this awesome interview, I would like to ask you what’s one positive psychology book that you recommend to myself, to my students, to the viewers, to the listeners? Because I want everyone to focus more on the positive side of life, so what book would you recommend?
So there, I mean, any book by Martin Seligman is, wonderful. He wrote Authentic Happiness and Learned Optimism where we really, you know, he describes how we can really, you know, we have the power to think more positively and to bring the positive towards us.
One of my favorite books though, is called “Flow” by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. I hope I pronounced that correctly. He describes this reverie that, you know, if we can enter into this state where we lose track of time and lose track of, you know, you sort of, if you can imagine a child for jumping in and out of puddles in the rain, you know, where they just could literally do that for hours, you know, it seems so, you know, mindless as, I mean, how could that be enjoyable, but a child see, you know, and for us as adults that might be dancing. I mean, for me, it’s, that’s my flow. I think everyone has something where they lose themselves in that. And they say that that is something that can really optimize happiness. Because if we’re too much in our heads, sometimes we really, we can ruminate and just become very negative. And I think when we can do something that really, we truly derive pleasure. So that’s why I love that book
And “flow” is like an amazing concept and once we’re aware of where we can find it, we can reach that very sweet spot.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Thank you so much for your time and your valuable insights and our skip in time from New York to Beijing, from the park to back home, I know you’re a very busy person, and there’s a 12-hour time difference between New York and Beijing. I’m going to get ready for bed now and I’m sure you’re going to get ready to start the day.
I’m going to make sure I… before the rain I try to get a walk, you know, I think that’s important, so I’ll try to do that.
Thank you so much once again for everything that you have shared with us.
Absolutely. Such a pleasure to speak with you and wonderful inquires and best of luck with everything, with all your endeavors.
Thank you so much. Bye.
Bye-bye.
